DNA Group 3
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International Lindsay DNA Group 3

"Lindsays of North Carolina & Virginia"

In an attempt to establish a basic geography for this composite group of Lindsays/Lindseys, DNA Group 3 will be henceforth referred to as the "Lindsays of North Carolina & Virginia" until revised.

If you have information, accompanied by the appropriate citations, that demonstrate how any one of the Lindsay/Lindsey lineages in DNA Group 3 are biologically connected or how DNA Group 3 can be expanded, please contact Ron Lindsay,  Administrator, International Lindsay Surname DNA Project.

The DNA Group 3 is a listing of fifteen (15) participants representing ten (10) distinct Lindsay/Lindsey lineages.

Click on DNA Data Spreadsheet to see the DNA marker values for the current participants of DNA Group 3.

The matching haplotypes represented by participants L0011, L0031, L0051, L0052, L0062, L0070, L0086, L0127, L0139 and L0154 have established the modal haplotype for DNA Group 3.

Eight of the ten identified DNA Group 3 Lindsay/Lindsey lineages, represented by L0011 (lineage #1), L0062 (lineage #2), L0031 (lineage #3), L0139 (lineage #4), L0127 (lineage #5), L0154 (lineage #7), L0070 (lineage #9), & L0086 (lineage #10) see graphic images below, have posted a perfect match of 43 out of 43 markers.  This, without doubt, suggests that these eight identified Lindsay/Lindsey lineages share a common ancestor in the "very near term" past.  The perplexing aspect of this exercise is that we have not been able prove the MRCA between any of these eight lineages.

The eight perfectly matching lineages speaks highly of the Y-chromosome's stability over hundreds of years.

The lineages of L0120 (lineage #4) and L0130 (lineage #6) have one mismatch each (out of 43 markers) with the modal haplotype of DNA Group 3.  This also establishes a near term MRCA with the other members of DNA Group 3.

Another interesting aspect of the analysis is in finding that participants L0063 (lineage #8) & L0070 (lineage #9) most likely share a MRCA at William Lindsay of Virginia (see graphic below), yet they have three mismatching markers out of 43 markers.  It would be informative to test additional cousins from each of these two lineages to see if the three mismatches (or mutations) are recent or hold up in time.

Participants L0010, L0011, L0051, L0052 & L0061 are all known cousins, all descending from John Devane Lindsay (1835NC-1914NC) of Sampson County, North Carolina, see lineage #1 in the graphic below.

Participant L0010 is a 1st cousin to L0011, L0051 and L0061 and yet L0010 has two mismatching markers with these three 1st cousins.  This should point out the fact that two or three mismatching markers can still suggest a close biological relationship.

To their credit, all the participants of DNA Group 3 have upgraded to the expanded 43 markers.

Participant #L0062 (lineage #2) is descended from a long line of Lindseys from Nash County, North Carolina.  The genealogical data would suggest that the MRCA merge point for lineages #1 and #2 (see graphic below) appears to be in the mid-1700s in North Carolina, but has not yet been proven.

The merging of the Lindsey lineages of participants L0031(lineage #3, Mississippi) and L0062 (lineage #2, Nash County, NC) has not been determined but the following potential link found on page 253 of  the book "The Lindsays of America", published by Margaret Isabella Lindsay in 1889, might prove helpful.  The passage is quoted as follows.

Mississippi

        Walnut Grove

"There are some Lindsays (they use the "e" in the name) residing in this place, who, I believe, trace their ancestry to Virginia and North Carolina.  One of them, a Mr. William F. Lindsey, believes his grandfather moved from Virginia to North Carolina;  his father, Thomas C. Lindsey, was born in Nash county, North Carolina, and died in Jackson, Mississippi, during the war (believed by the Lindsay DNA Project Coordinator as obviously referring to the American Civil War), while his son William F. was quite young.  Other residents of Walnut Grove, distantly related to this latter Lindsay, are Mrs. Virginia Castul nee Lindsey, Mr. J. L. Lindsey and Miss Mattie Lindsey.  I addressed letters in reference to their ancestry to some of them, but to my regret failed to get replies."

Analyzing the quoted paragraph, we know the years of the American Civil War was April 12, 1861 when Confederate Troops fired upon Fort Sumter at Charleston, South Carolina and ended April 9, 1865, when Gen. Robert E. Lee surrendered his Confederate Army to Gen. Ulysses S. Grant at the village of Appomattox Court House in Virginia.  Thus we know that Thomas C. Lindsay died between 1861 and 1865.  If we assume that Thomas C. Lindsay died in 1864, then we can assume that William F. Lindsey, if age ten at the time, would have been born ca 1854.  Can anyone identify this Thomas C. Lindsey (born ?? in Nash County, NC and died ca 1864 in Jackson, Mississippi) or William F. Lindsey, his son, (who lived in Walnut Grove, Mississippi prior to 1889)?? Robin Willis, a Lindsey researcher and descendant of the Nash County, NC Lindseys, has found a possible connection of the Walnut Grove Lindseys of Mississippi to the person of  Asberry Lindsey (ca 1796 - 1854 Nash Co., NC), a sibling of her direct ancestor, Edward Buxton Lindsey (1811 Nash Co., NC - 1881 LA).  If you have additional information, please contact Ron Lindsay

Lindsey participant #L0063 is descended from a lineage of Lindseys from Carroll & Franklin Counties, Virginia (see the Lindsey lineage #8 in graphic below).

Lindsey participant #L0086 is descended from a lineage of Lindseys from James City County, VA and Fluvanna County, VA (see the Lindsey lineage #10 in graphic below).   The earliest known proven ancestor for participant L0086 was Landy Lindsay (ca 1740 VA - bet 1793/1805 VA), who had a son named Landy W. Lindsey (1780-?).   For what it is worth, Margaret Isabella Lindsay (author of "The Lindsays of America" which was published in 1889) referred to a Landy A. Lindsay (see page 146, 4th paragraph) who was a lawyer and lived at 186 William Street, New York City, NY.  "Landy" is not a very common given name among Lindsay/Lindsey lineages.

In the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) analysis, we know that participants L0010, L0011, L0051 & L0061 are known 1st cousins, thus the actual MRCA for them did occur in the year 1873, the birth date of the MRCA/grandfather, Algia Arcastus Lindsay.   The MRCA for this same group and that of L0052 (2nd cousin) occurred  in the year 1835, the birth date of the  MRCA/great grandfather, John Devane Lindsay.

The overall MRCA analysis for DNA Group 3 is still evolving.

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Reference Notes

1. Proper Analysis of DYS389-1 & DYS389-2 Marker Mutations.

In analyzing the marker values in the table representing this DNA Group, it is important to remember the following in your analysis of loci DYS389-1 and DYS389-2 matches and mismatches.

1. The loci DYS389-1 and DYS389-2 are two legitimate lengths of DNA but move in tandem.
2. DYS389-1 refers to the length of only one portion of the DYS389 marker.
3. DYS389-2 refers to the total length of the DYS389 marker. Therefore, when there is a one step mutation at DYS389-1, it will also appear to be in DYS389-2.
4. When comparing one individual to another, if the values for two individuals differ by one repeat at DYS389-1, that represents a one-step mismatch.
5. If the values for the same two individuals differ also by one repeat at DYS389-2, then it should only be counted as one combined mutation for DYS389-1 & DYS389-2.
6. If the marker values for two individuals differ by one repeat mismatch at DYS389-1 and a two repeat mismatch at DYS389-2, then it should be counted as two separate mismatches or mutations.
7. There is another and potentially even more confusing situation that could occur at marker DYS389. If the marker values for two individuals differ by one repeat mismatch at DYS389-1 and then a perfect match at DYS389-2 for these same two individuals. This should be counted as two separate marker mismatches since the value mismatch at DYS389-1 was offset by a mutation in the opposite "direction" from the value found at DYS389-2 and appears to cancel out the mutation that occurred at DYS389-1.
8. However, keep in mind there can be a mutation at DYS389-2 that will not affect the length found at DYS389-1.

End of Reference Notes

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The genealogical information found in the graphic images found below provides a view of what is currently known regarding the paternal generations of the ten (10) Lindsay/Lindsey lineages that currently represents the DNA participants of  Lindsay/Lindsey DNA Group 3.  The merge points, which are likely to occur prior to and during the Revolutionary War timeframe has not yet been determined, but research is underway.  This genealogical information is posted here in hopes that it will help to locate someone who might assist in the merging of one or more of these Lindsay/Lindsey lineages.

Circumstantial evidence suggest that William Lindsey who married Mary Barksdale in Caroline County, Virginia in 1754, could be the MRCA for Lindsey lineages #8 and #9, but has not been proven.  Other evidence would also suggest that this same William Lindsey (of lineage #8 & #9) and Landy Lindsey (lineage #10) could be brothers or possibly first cousins.

There is also circumstantial evidence that would suggest that William Lindsey of Brunswick County, Virginia is the possible MRCA for the Nash County, NC Lindsey lineage #2 and the Mississippi Lindsey lineage #3.

If you have any information that offers further clues, circumstantial, proven or otherwise, as to how any of these ten Lindsay/Lindsey lineages are connected, please click on Ron Lindsay and send me an e-mail with your thoughts.

• This web page was initially posted: October 14, 2002

• This web page was last updated: Feb. 13, 2008

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